Hello everyone,
I’ve been suffering from PN for over seven years now, which is about the same time that I have had problems with my jaw: small disk dislocation with neck pain, headaches, facial pain etc.
I am beginning to notice a link between the dental treatment and my PN treatment. Each time my osteopath treats the PN and I feel pretty good the jaw pain comes back. When I go back to the dentist to treat the jaw pain the PN pain comes back. It’s pretty logical stuff, I suppose.
I just wanted to know if any other PN sufferers have had jaw problems. If your jaw is off, chances are that the pelvic area is too. My osteopath is now trying to treat both at the same time in the hope that my body will knuckle down to normality one day.
Any information/input would be greatly appreciated.
Much love
Al
Jaw and PN
Jaw and PN
I'm 37. Pain started suddenly in 2005 after heavy physical work. Had a two year period without pain between 2007 and 2009. Pain came back 2010 (too much yoga) and I finally got a diagnosis. Too many cortisone shots! No long term relief.I Don’t take many meds as pain rarely goes above 3 or 4. 2mg of valium once or twice a month. Recently diagnosed with bilateral fai and labral tears. Right side hip scope in July 2013...Second left side scope planned for later in the year...
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HerMajesty
- Posts: 1134
- Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:41 am
- Location: North Las Vegas, Nevada
Re: Jaw and PN
After having my SIJD corrected, I worked for 1.5 years with the PT who corrected it and this is VERY typical. The source is almost always the pelvis, which is the kinetic center of the body; and the issues further up, such as upper back, shoulders, neck, or jaw, are almost always compensatory for the pelvic issue. This is not a hard and fast rule, but is more often true than not. The point being, effective work on the pelvis will probably cause the jaw to self correct.
The mechanism is that we have a powerful reflex designed to keep our head level (eyes level, even blood flow to both sides of the brain); and also to walk in a straight line. Theoretically, a twisted pelvis alone might cause us to wander off diagonally, or stand a little diagonally with head tilted. but in the real world, your body does not let this happen. Instead, it compensates by twisting someplace further up to maintain the illusion that everything is straight and level. The most common compensation is twisting in the cervical vertebrae; but compensations involving the jaw are not uncommon.
The mechanism is that we have a powerful reflex designed to keep our head level (eyes level, even blood flow to both sides of the brain); and also to walk in a straight line. Theoretically, a twisted pelvis alone might cause us to wander off diagonally, or stand a little diagonally with head tilted. but in the real world, your body does not let this happen. Instead, it compensates by twisting someplace further up to maintain the illusion that everything is straight and level. The most common compensation is twisting in the cervical vertebrae; but compensations involving the jaw are not uncommon.
pelvic pain started 1985 age 14 interstitial cystitis. Refused medical care from age 17, did GREAT with self care for years.
2004 PN started gradually, disabled by 2009. Underlying cause SIJD & Tarlov cysts
improved with PT & meds: neurontin, valium, nortriptyline, propanolol. (off nortriptyline & propanolol now, yay!)
Tarlov cyst surgery with Dr. Frank Feigenbaum March 20, 2012.
Results have been excellent so far; but I won't know my final functional level for a couple of years.
2004 PN started gradually, disabled by 2009. Underlying cause SIJD & Tarlov cysts
improved with PT & meds: neurontin, valium, nortriptyline, propanolol. (off nortriptyline & propanolol now, yay!)
Tarlov cyst surgery with Dr. Frank Feigenbaum March 20, 2012.
Results have been excellent so far; but I won't know my final functional level for a couple of years.
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Anne smith
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:44 pm
Re: Jaw and PN
Yes !! I had jaw pain for about five years!
I read every thing possible about the subject! And eventually accepted that I had a localised form of fibromyalgia ! The pain went after a rotten five years, but it wasn't long before I started with p.n.this is very intereasting? I have gone threw many operations and treatments like many of us! Keep me posted on this thread!
Anne
I read every thing possible about the subject! And eventually accepted that I had a localised form of fibromyalgia ! The pain went after a rotten five years, but it wasn't long before I started with p.n.this is very intereasting? I have gone threw many operations and treatments like many of us! Keep me posted on this thread!
Anne
Iliostomys at twenty five, just after delivery of baby
Started with rectal pain about twenty one years later
Ten years to get diagnosis, had to research myself!
Two horrific surjurys two(mend) a perennial hernia
Now with mr baranofskis team and traveling to London shortly for injections into alcocks.
Started with rectal pain about twenty one years later
Ten years to get diagnosis, had to research myself!
Two horrific surjurys two(mend) a perennial hernia
Now with mr baranofskis team and traveling to London shortly for injections into alcocks.
Re: Jaw and PN
Hmm this is interesting. I have had PN off and on for almost five years and I'm about to have jaw surgery for a misalignment. My jaw has never hurt, it's just that the bottom jaw is apparently 8mm out of sync with the top jaw, and so I'll be having it corrected - quite an intense operation.
I have never thought about there being a connection to PN though.
I have never thought about there being a connection to PN though.
Pain started Aug 2008 after prolonged sitting.
Referal to Dr Natasha Curran Nov 2008.
First Nerve Block Jan 2009.
Second Nerve Block Feb 2009.
Physiotherapy Feb 2009.
Started practicing sitting four times a day with the amount being increased by 10% each week:-
Feb 2009: 5 seconds x 4
Nov 2009: 1 minute x 4
Dec 2010: 1 hour x 4
July 2011: 3 hours x 4 (cured)
Had relapse in March 2012.
Sitting normally again October 2013. No pudendal pain, but some lingering muscle tightness.
Referal to Dr Natasha Curran Nov 2008.
First Nerve Block Jan 2009.
Second Nerve Block Feb 2009.
Physiotherapy Feb 2009.
Started practicing sitting four times a day with the amount being increased by 10% each week:-
Feb 2009: 5 seconds x 4
Nov 2009: 1 minute x 4
Dec 2010: 1 hour x 4
July 2011: 3 hours x 4 (cured)
Had relapse in March 2012.
Sitting normally again October 2013. No pudendal pain, but some lingering muscle tightness.
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Anne smith
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:44 pm
Re: Jaw and PN
Hi
This very intereasting! We are talking on out the connection ( possibly?) between p.n.e. and jaw problems!
On listening to the replys, once again we have a sufferer who has been diognoised with labral tears like myself!!! Surely one day some one might make a connection?
Anne
This very intereasting! We are talking on out the connection ( possibly?) between p.n.e. and jaw problems!
On listening to the replys, once again we have a sufferer who has been diognoised with labral tears like myself!!! Surely one day some one might make a connection?
Anne
Iliostomys at twenty five, just after delivery of baby
Started with rectal pain about twenty one years later
Ten years to get diagnosis, had to research myself!
Two horrific surjurys two(mend) a perennial hernia
Now with mr baranofskis team and traveling to London shortly for injections into alcocks.
Started with rectal pain about twenty one years later
Ten years to get diagnosis, had to research myself!
Two horrific surjurys two(mend) a perennial hernia
Now with mr baranofskis team and traveling to London shortly for injections into alcocks.
Re: Jaw and PN
Not sure how to tell the difference -- maybe she has more than one thing going on. Or it may have started as one thing but if pelvic muscles went into spasm it may have turned into more. It's typically considered safer to try conservative therapies before surgery so if she is able to try PT 1st maybe that is the route to try first. Do a forum search on pfcn and you will come up with a bunch of posts made by other patients on the top
NEHAL
Re: Jaw and PN
I had also struggled with TMD (temporomandiluar joint disorder) and atypical facial pain for more than 10 years.
A lot of ups and downs, then lets say 7 years ago it slowly went away, sometimes I feel neck/facial/head skin discomfort, but no more intensive pain. The key was some behavioaral therapy and amytriptilin. That was also the time I firstly notice huge link to mental state - when I was in stress, my jaw/facial pain sky rockeeted and when I was calm, I hardly noticed it. In 2009-2010 my pelvic pain started, most of the time as post-ejalulation pain for several days, before it became chronic. I also see some links there - some mild misalignement might became a serious pain/anxiety/depression related state of mind. My mind works like amplifier.
Surely some myoneuropathic interlinkage is there and maybe that is the reason why PT and behavioral changes delivered some improvement. dont believe that I have true PNE, but some underlying myoneuropathic disorder is surely there.
I am also aware how the focal point of my anxiety compeletely swithched from face to pelvis- currently I dont have TMD maybe also due the fact that I am not afraid of it, I know that it is "pure" subtle neuromuscular benign disorder and nothing worse...Centre of my fear and depression is now localised in pelvis. I believe that I will find the way out one day, exactly like I solved that TMD mistery.
A lot of ups and downs, then lets say 7 years ago it slowly went away, sometimes I feel neck/facial/head skin discomfort, but no more intensive pain. The key was some behavioaral therapy and amytriptilin. That was also the time I firstly notice huge link to mental state - when I was in stress, my jaw/facial pain sky rockeeted and when I was calm, I hardly noticed it. In 2009-2010 my pelvic pain started, most of the time as post-ejalulation pain for several days, before it became chronic. I also see some links there - some mild misalignement might became a serious pain/anxiety/depression related state of mind. My mind works like amplifier.
Surely some myoneuropathic interlinkage is there and maybe that is the reason why PT and behavioral changes delivered some improvement. dont believe that I have true PNE, but some underlying myoneuropathic disorder is surely there.
I am also aware how the focal point of my anxiety compeletely swithched from face to pelvis- currently I dont have TMD maybe also due the fact that I am not afraid of it, I know that it is "pure" subtle neuromuscular benign disorder and nothing worse...Centre of my fear and depression is now localised in pelvis. I believe that I will find the way out one day, exactly like I solved that TMD mistery.
summer 2009 - episodic post ejaculatory pain,
early 2010- major flare-up, chronification
february 2011 - ESCW wave. major flare-up, lasting 5 months
february 2012 - diagnosed CPPS with irritation of pudendal nerve, hypog. plexus block
june 2012 - dorsal nerve block, no relief
2013 - starting PT with moderate results
2014-2017 better periods interchanging with heavy flare ups
2018 first long remission (several months)
2019-2023 most of the time almost assymptomatic with cca 2 flare ups yearly
early 2010- major flare-up, chronification
february 2011 - ESCW wave. major flare-up, lasting 5 months
february 2012 - diagnosed CPPS with irritation of pudendal nerve, hypog. plexus block
june 2012 - dorsal nerve block, no relief
2013 - starting PT with moderate results
2014-2017 better periods interchanging with heavy flare ups
2018 first long remission (several months)
2019-2023 most of the time almost assymptomatic with cca 2 flare ups yearly
Re: Jaw and PN
Hi there flyer,
I just saw your post on TMD and it really spoke to me. I have had it on and off like the PN for a while now and I must admit it does freak me out a bit. Interestingly, I was diagnosed with fai and labral tears on both hips. I was operated on the left side in July and there does seem to be some PN improvement, but the TMD has been worse since the operation. I am now more worried about the TMD than the PN. I wear a guard at night, see an osteopath and all that... I think that my body is readjusting after the operation and that my jaw has not got a copy of the sheet music. I have a further operation planned for the second hip in December and I hope that things will settle down before then. The TMD pain can be a little disconcerting. What do you mean by atypical facial pain?
Also, have you elimated the possibility of hip issues?
Any extra information on this would be much appreciated.
Keep on keeping on,
Al
I just saw your post on TMD and it really spoke to me. I have had it on and off like the PN for a while now and I must admit it does freak me out a bit. Interestingly, I was diagnosed with fai and labral tears on both hips. I was operated on the left side in July and there does seem to be some PN improvement, but the TMD has been worse since the operation. I am now more worried about the TMD than the PN. I wear a guard at night, see an osteopath and all that... I think that my body is readjusting after the operation and that my jaw has not got a copy of the sheet music. I have a further operation planned for the second hip in December and I hope that things will settle down before then. The TMD pain can be a little disconcerting. What do you mean by atypical facial pain?
Also, have you elimated the possibility of hip issues?
Any extra information on this would be much appreciated.
Keep on keeping on,
Al
I'm 37. Pain started suddenly in 2005 after heavy physical work. Had a two year period without pain between 2007 and 2009. Pain came back 2010 (too much yoga) and I finally got a diagnosis. Too many cortisone shots! No long term relief.I Don’t take many meds as pain rarely goes above 3 or 4. 2mg of valium once or twice a month. Recently diagnosed with bilateral fai and labral tears. Right side hip scope in July 2013...Second left side scope planned for later in the year...
Re: Jaw and PN
Hallo Alex
atypical facial pain is basically an overall waste basket diagnosis for all pain on the face which is not imposed by teeth or trigeminal neuralgia.
My pain started as a discomfort on both jaws, very annoying feeling that you have misaligned your jaws or feeling that you need wider jaws than you have...a lot of dyscomfort which was later transformed into real pain. My dentist checked everything and said something like if it is not dental it is mental...
I did not agrre, but now I know that there is a spot of truth in this statement. My pain went from jaw to nasal cavities, area under eyes, tip of the head etc...After some years of suffering I found out that there is some mental background, exactly like in fybromyalgia. E.g. I was always worsened in plane flight, but it was only because of thin air but because of anxiety related to that situation (leaving home, my doctors etc...), The pain was never so intensive on the flight back home...This pointed me to psychological component of situation. I mastered my TMD somewhere in 2007-2008, some cognitive behavioral therapy, some amytriptiline....But the main thing is that my mind ceased to fear and I became relaxed...
Somehow this situation is transferred to my pelvis. Tight achey feeling all the day...I am somehow predestined to myoneuropathic disorders I guess.
atypical facial pain is basically an overall waste basket diagnosis for all pain on the face which is not imposed by teeth or trigeminal neuralgia.
My pain started as a discomfort on both jaws, very annoying feeling that you have misaligned your jaws or feeling that you need wider jaws than you have...a lot of dyscomfort which was later transformed into real pain. My dentist checked everything and said something like if it is not dental it is mental...
I did not agrre, but now I know that there is a spot of truth in this statement. My pain went from jaw to nasal cavities, area under eyes, tip of the head etc...After some years of suffering I found out that there is some mental background, exactly like in fybromyalgia. E.g. I was always worsened in plane flight, but it was only because of thin air but because of anxiety related to that situation (leaving home, my doctors etc...), The pain was never so intensive on the flight back home...This pointed me to psychological component of situation. I mastered my TMD somewhere in 2007-2008, some cognitive behavioral therapy, some amytriptiline....But the main thing is that my mind ceased to fear and I became relaxed...
Somehow this situation is transferred to my pelvis. Tight achey feeling all the day...I am somehow predestined to myoneuropathic disorders I guess.
summer 2009 - episodic post ejaculatory pain,
early 2010- major flare-up, chronification
february 2011 - ESCW wave. major flare-up, lasting 5 months
february 2012 - diagnosed CPPS with irritation of pudendal nerve, hypog. plexus block
june 2012 - dorsal nerve block, no relief
2013 - starting PT with moderate results
2014-2017 better periods interchanging with heavy flare ups
2018 first long remission (several months)
2019-2023 most of the time almost assymptomatic with cca 2 flare ups yearly
early 2010- major flare-up, chronification
february 2011 - ESCW wave. major flare-up, lasting 5 months
february 2012 - diagnosed CPPS with irritation of pudendal nerve, hypog. plexus block
june 2012 - dorsal nerve block, no relief
2013 - starting PT with moderate results
2014-2017 better periods interchanging with heavy flare ups
2018 first long remission (several months)
2019-2023 most of the time almost assymptomatic with cca 2 flare ups yearly
Re: Jaw and PN
I have all three symptoms as well; PN, labral tears in each hip and jaw pain. The jaw pain is the one thing I can control on my own however. When I am stressed or tense I tend to tighten my jaw. Relaxing it helps and I haven't had any real pain there in a few years. I sort of assume that I am tense in the Pelvic reason as well but relaxation and PT haven't seemed to help too much. Had both hips operated on but not much success there either.
Scrotal pain and tingling started in 1999. Soreness after ejaculation. Occasional numbness in Scrotum. Some urinary frequency. Symptoms disappeared for 3 years in 07 and came back in 2010. Tingling and tickling in penis 2011. Pain in buttocks with sitting started in July of 2012. Not much success with PT. Tried the usual meds with some success, but didn't like the side effects. Dr. Potter MRI revealed pelvic floor varices. Both hips opperated on in 2013 for FAI. Some help with supplements.