A Headache in the Pelvis Clinic

[Karyn]

Nice how he assumes no responsibility for his protocol being dubbed "the Stanford Protocol" by "internet folks" yet reaps the glory of having it called such.
Hasn't this guy been on Oprah before? I don't have extensive experience with multiple PT's (have only been treated by 2) but I did notice that "Headache in the Pelvis" was front and center in their small libraries of the treatment rooms. He seems to be a big hit and vauluable resource in some PT circles. Interesting and upsetting all at the same time!
Thanks very much, Charlie!

[Charlie]

Nice how he assumes no responsibility for his protocol being dubbed "the Stanford Protocol" by "internet folks" yet reaps the glory of having it called such.
Hasn't this guy been on Oprah before? I don't have extensive experience with multiple PT's (have only been treated by 2) but I did notice that "Headache in the Pelvis" was front and center in their small libraries of the treatment rooms. He seems to be a big hit and vauluable resource in some PT circles. Interesting and upsetting all at the same time!
Thanks very much, Charlie!

Karyn, Yes it is nice Wise leaves the bit out about sponsoring the website which called it the Stanford Protocol. Yes the book sells well. If you have pelvic pain you are bound to buy it.

I am not sure any PT seriously believes David Wise came up with physical therapy for the pelvic floor. Every self help guru has their founding myth. Wise has created the myth of inventing this approach himself and overcoming pain. It is an emotional story and highly persuasive. The fact that he has experienced pelvic pain is crucial. People can relate to him. Do we buy self help books from people who have had no struggles in their lives and are merely experts in their subject? Usually if you want a self help book to sell well it is more effective to have a book written by someone who has overcome their problem and miraculously figured out how to do it by themselves.

The reality is somewhat different. There is not a single original idea contained in the book. Interestingly the Physical therapist that diagnosed David Wise claims not to own a copy of A headache in the Pelvis or ever even read it.

[Karyn]

Do we buy self help books from people who have had no struggles in their lives and are merely experts in their subject? Usually if you want a self help book to sell well it is more effective to have a book written by someone who has overcome their problem and miraculously figured out how to do it by themselves.

Very good point, Charl.

Interestingly the Physical therapist that diagnosed David Wise claims not to own a copy of A headache in the Pelvis or ever even read it.

I agree. That is very interesting.

[ezer]

David Wise was forced to move his clinic to a hotel. His neighbors complained that he was running a business from his house.
You are right, many PTs have "a headache in the pelvis" on display and it is because often patients bring them a copy of the book and demand to be treated exactly like it is described in the book.

[Charlie]

You are right, many PTs have "a headache in the pelvis" on display and it is because often patients bring them a copy of the book and demand to be treated exactly like it is described in the book.

Also why would many PTs be opposed in general to A Headache in the Pelvis. If I wrote a book claiming acupuncture cures pelvic pain I can guarantee it would sell well amongst Acupunturists.

If you quiz PTs you will find they do not agree with the main theory of AHIP which is that anxiety is the root cause of pelvic pain. I have certainly yet to meet one that agrees with this. Even Tim Sawyer did not seem sold on Wise's theory. Physical therapy has a place in pelvic pain treatment but David Wise did not come up with it.

Is the guitar used by David Wise to entertain patients during the breaks?

I can confirm that David Wise has been known to serenade his patients at the end of his clinic. No I am not joking.

[ezer]

Yes, David Wise is a musician. He insists very heavily on it in his latest work "paradoxical relaxation". I am sure that David Wise suffered quite a bit during those 22 years but it was not debilitating like PNE is for some. He was in a Klezmer band and recorded music in the 80s.

http://www.answers.com/topic/the-travel ... sh-wedding

What is interesting is that one of the musicians beside Wise is Robert Blum. Robert Blum has a testimonial for "a headache in the pelvis".

A Headache in the Pelvis is a lamp in the dark human suffering of chronic pelvic pain. This book is a precious document that will help many people.

Robert Blum, MD

And here is Robert Blum supporting his friend David Wise:

[Susanjane]

HerMajesty

You are perfectly entitled to be critical of David Wise and everything about his theory and treatment programme, although you do acknowledge that it may work “for the rare person who has given themselves a case of pelvic floor dysfunction due to unconscious voluntary muscle contraction in the pelvic floor.”

But to follow this with “Bottom line folks: If you have learned to contract your pelvic muscles in response to stress, this method might work for you.” is, frankly, offensive and insulting. Remember that these people are sufferers too. Does the cause really matter? The result is the same – physiological changes resulting in CHRONIC PAIN, for which they are seeking relief … just like you.

Incidentally, I’m not sure how their muscle contraction can be both "unconscious" and "voluntary"!

[nyt]

Susanjane, I have to say the cause does matter. If you have pelvic floor muscle spasms due because the pudendal nerve is entrapment in scar tissue and causing these muscle spasms pelvic floor PT is going to be of minimal help if at all. Surgery is the best if not only option because the nerve needs to be decompressed. If you have pelvic floor muscle spasms because you tense these muscles unconsciously when stressed then PT and stress reduction will help. Surgery will not fix this problem but trigger point injections with marcaine and/or botox will help significantly. Therefore, why one has muscle spasms is extremely important to determine the course of treatment.

We all respond to stress differently but one thing is common for the majority of us when we are stressed and/or angry we tense are muscles. Whether it is our shoulder muscles (most common) or pelvic floor muscles these are habits we have developed to respond to stress and it is part of the physiological flight or fight response. I do agree that we are all looking for ways to decrease or eliminate our pain but I personally don't find it offensive or insulating that it was pointed out that there is a subset of individuals that have pelvic pain because the way they deal with stress is to contract the muscles in the pelvic floor.

I will use myself as an example. During my battles with pelvic pain I have developed TMJ. My pelvic pain is due to entrapment of several different nerves in scar tissue from a surgery I had 4 years ago. These entrapped nerves have given me neuropathic pain that has resulted in muscle spasms leading to myofascial pain. I have had some improvement in the myofascial pain when the source of one of the entrapments was removed. On the other hand, over the last 2.5 years, I have developed the habit of clenching my jaw in response to the physical and emotional stress during this journey and this has resulted in TMJ. The resulting pain from my TMJ is not due to nerve entrapment but muscle strain from clenching and this clenching is a habit that I have to learn how to break. To break this habit I have to wear a mouth guard at night and consciously check in on the status of how I am holding my jaw several times every hour. I have to learn to teach my body to respond differently to the pain. So I have muscle pain from two very different causes: 1) from nerve entrapment and 2) from stress response. Treatments for the two are very different. So when the TMJ dr. pointed out to me that I needed to deal with my physical stress differently it was not insulting or offensive but true.

[ezer]

Susanjane,
Hermajesty is a great contributor to this forum. She has enlightened us many times with her knowledge. I see hermajesty's post as humoristic and witty. Frankly, I wasted many years on this protocol and I could be pretty upset about having been misled. Instead we all chose to have a laugh about it on this thread which is more healthy. I am not sure why this made you so upset. If the protocol was helpful to you, then please tell us about it.
incidentally, we are not the only one that have a problem with David Wise's protocol.
This is what Jill Osborne, the ICN President & Founder, posted yesterday on the Wise-Anderson protocol on the ICN forum and it is quite devastating. I do not suffer from IC, I am not registered on her forum, and I do not know Jill Osborne at all but it is astonishing that she reached similar conclusions:

http://www.ic-network.com/forum/showthread.php?p=569296

Thoughts on the "Wise-Anderson Clinics For Pelvic Pain
2/15/2011
So, I’m writing this blog to address a question that I’ve received numerous times about pelvic pain programs, specifically the “Wise-Anderson” protocol that is also incorrectly referred to as the Stanford Protocol for pelvic pain. Made popular through a series books called A Headache in the Pelvis, they emphasize the use of “paradoxical relaxation” to reduce pain. Some ICN members have spent thousands of dollars participating in this six day clinic and have been disappointed with their results.
- Several patients thought that the program was affiliated with Stanford University and that Stanford personnel would be involved. This program is not affiliated with Stanford and is run by a psychologist licensed in California and is located in a hotel.
- For the money spent, one participant felt that the program was extremely casual and informal. They expected to work with medical care providers in professional attire.
- One patient felt that she had attended a very expensive “relaxation workshop” and that it was not beneficial for her IC.
- That the Amazon review system for the book has removed reviews which were critical of the book and/or clinic and that various websites have struggled with aggressive, hostile postings. I know that this happened because it's happened on our site as well.
Jill Osborne
ICN President & Founder.

[Charlie]

It is a fantastic statement from the President of the Interstitial Cystitis Network.

It is great to see another organization exposing the David Wise 'clinic' .