Health Organization for Pudendal Education

Did you everyone get carted over to a PT clinic for the internal exams, or did they do those in the bathroom?

HerMajesty wrote:Did you everyone get carted over to a PT clinic for the internal exams, or did they do those in the bathroom?

There was a shack outside the main class room. It is where Tim Sawyer would see us.
When I did it the class it was 4.5 days as there were a few 1/2 days in the middle. It was roughly $115/hour for group instruction in relaxation (7 years ago).
PT was billed separately at $150 per session (which was higher than Tim's private rate at his own practice).

OK, I stand corrected. Not the bathroom, the outhouse.

Why did you have to go to a separate location, i.e. shack for PT?
Warm, gentle, comforting hugs to all of you who attended this "clinic",
Karyn

Karyn,

There is a tragic element behind it. Everything that surrounds the Wise protocol has been carefully constructed to project a well crafted image of professionalism.
When I started looking for answers, I found the PN sites that were quite messy, fights were frequent etc... I then found David Wise's forum. It was a completely different story. It seems that everybody was getting better slowly. Then it was backed by Stanford. What a fantastic endorsement. David Wise assured me on the phone that PNE did not exist. That was what I wanted to hear of course. The Stanford name was used constantly. Little did we realize then that it was a very shrewdly crafted image. I since discovered that the Stanford link that was exploited so heavily was in fact very weak and currently nobody at Stanford knows anything about David Wise and his protocol.
Initially I thought the class was at Stanford. It is only at the last minute that I discovered that the class was 80 miles away in Sonoma county.
The class 6 years ago was held in David Wise's one bedroom house. If I remember correctly, it was a small log cabin. A bunch of small sheds surrounded the house. One was for David Wise's admin, the second one was David Wise's office (he would rush back to his office at every break as he clearly had no interest in mingling with us), and the third one was used by Tim Sawyer for PT. We got PT once a day according to a schedule we received.
The sad part is that spouses were encouraged to come and learn to do PT. Most patients came with their spouse. As expected most people did not improve and many patients started blaming their spouse for their lack of progress. How come everybody on David Wise's forum and on Amazon is getting cured? It was of course the husband's or wife's fault. There were 2 divorces that I am aware of in my group.

Thank you for your response, Ezer. What a sad story, indeed. I'm finding it difficult to believe this "clinic" is still in business. Maybe because the focus is on chronic pain patients and they just don't have enough fight left in them to fully expose this operation? Could you please remind me what Mr. Wise's PHD is in?
If I remember correctly, he's not an actual medical doctor? Physchologist maybe?
Warm regards,
Karyn

That is so sad about the divorces; the financial pressure is tremendous on couples when there is a medical problem and of course finances are a big piece of many divorces. This is I am sure the reason the "clinic" is still open as well... you don't need to fool too many people at 6 grand a pop. A lot of you guys that went seem to know each other; has anyone ever looked into a class action lawsuit?

I also went to the clinic when it was held at David Wise's home. You could not make it up really. How many other Dr's mentioned on this website run their clinics from their own home?

Stanford have never had any involvement in the running of the Wise clinic. It was Dr Rodney Anderson who was a Stanford Dr and co author of the book who was referring people to the clinic. Last year Stanford Urology department informed me on the phone that Dr Anderson has retired from Stanford.

Wise has admitted that his program was never officially called the Stanford Protocol in an article he wrote some years ago. I have quoted him below.

The Stanford Protocol is a name that was given by an internet support/chat group of patients suffering from different varieties of pelvic pain to a protocol originally called the Wise Anderson Protocol.

What he does n't tell you is that he was at that time sponsoring the website that called it that. The same website also continually referred to the clinic as the 'Stanford' clinic. As Ezer said it is a shrewd marketing campaign. Wise knows his audience , people in pain and when your in pain your willing to believe in anything. Now of course he has this 'blink and you'll miss it' disclaimer on his website.



I hear that until 2008 the A headache in the Pelvis Clinic continued to be held at Wise's home. The photo I posted is fairly recent. Both the trigger point map and the photo may I add are entirely accurate.

Now David Wise has decided to upgrade to a hotel - The Flamingo.

Do you happen to know what Wise's Phd is in?

Warmest of regards,

Karyn

Karyn wrote: Could you please remind me what Mr. Wise's PHD is in?
If I remember correctly, he's not an actual medical doctor? Physchologist maybe?

Karyn, David Wise has no medical training or qualifications. He is a licensed psychologist.

However he has never been a Stanford psychologist as I was led to believe he was at his clinic. He has not been a member of Stanford Psychology department or their Urology department. In addition he is not a Doctor of Psychology. He is a doctor of Sociology. His Ph.D is below.

University of California, Berkeley
Department of Sociology
David Thomas Wise
Entering Cohort: 1967
Dissertation: Dharma West: A Social-Psychological Inquiry into Zen in San Francisco

Below is David Wise's convoluted explanation for the title of his protocol.