Health Organization for Pudendal Education

Not a single word spent about treatments ....
Very very sad and disappointing post.

Rob73 wrote:Not a single word spent about treatments ....
Very very sad and disappointing post.

It's a commonality in all these reviews- lots of Appeals to Emotion, but little in the way of explaining what specific treatments are done or how they work. To find that out, it's mostly the use of imperatives to visit the Sayer Clinic as Alan mentioned. (Don't delay! Act now! Call 1-800-...)

Hello All,

I'd just like to confirm that I am a real person and have no affiliation with The Sayer Clinic other than being Michael Durtnall's patient!
(I work as an events manager in West London)
I decided to post my story after responding positively to treatment, and found this website while looking into PN a bit more, with the hope of genuinely helping other people. PN is a horrendous affliction to live with, and pretty much ruined my life. Michael's techniques are pioneering, and as is with any new approach in medicine, it takes time to gain popularity or be researched extensively. I haven't found any one else who can help, or think about nervous system in this way, that's probably why it seems as if these recoveries are being attributed to an individual. That isn't the case. The truth is we just haven't studied the pelvic nervous function enough as a collective, and this clinic, and Michael happen to be pioneering this better understanding of it.
With regards to the similar style of writing you find in these positive reviews, I think the commonality is in the emotional language that people generally use when they're recovering, recovery has a massive emotional impact. Other than that these posts just seem well written, hence ending with a conclusive paragraph referring to Michael... Because they are about Michael. That's how one should round up a story, traditionally, with a summary and conclusion.
I think its quite cynical to suggest some sort of conspiratory forum infiltration, if that is the alternative explanation for these posts?
On the other hand, people should ask questions, and I'll try to answer some of them about the specific treatments and some of the logic behind them. Hopefully my responding in this dialogue will ease some minds. The idea is that optimum musculoskeletal alignment in the pelvic region, is necessary for optimum nerve function, so to treat neuralgia, Michael uses a combination of muscular and ligament release and chiropractic manipulation to stabilise the area, maintained with good postural advice and exercises, the body starts to heal and nerve functionality returns to normal. That's really it. That's the treatment simplified. Its difficult to attain non anecdotal evidence for this other than before/after x-rays I suppose.
Please ask me any specific questions if my explanation isn't sufficient, and I'll do my best to explain as much as I know.

Marwa

Marwa B wrote:The idea is that optimum musculoskeletal alignment in the pelvic region, is necessary for optimum nerve function, so to treat neuralgia, Michael uses a combination of muscular and ligament release and chiropractic manipulation to stabilise the area, maintained with good postural advice and exercises, the body starts to heal and nerve functionality returns to normal.

I'd like to ask you about the sentence quoted above Marwa. Is this in your own words or does it quote someone else? I ask this because the language is markedly different from that of your original post and also contrasts with much of the language you use in your current post. It uses technical terms , for example optimum musculoskeletal alignment and optimum nerve function you might expect someone who has trained as a chiropractor to use.

So Marwa B originally joins the forum and creates a thread on 4/20/17, never posts again, then comes back today within an hour of me posting, appearing to speak on behalf of all the Durtnall posters. Interesting.

I actually have nothing further to say on the matter nor do I feel like continuing to post here. Anyone reading this can make up their own mind and continue the discussion if they want.

Hi Alan,

I'm just trying to speak technically about the treatment, so as to be specific for you, seeing as that was a qualm I noticed in your earlier post. Those are my own words, I believe they're quite easy to understand, and do not require one to be a trained chiropractor to use or read. People with PN seem to be well-versed in all manner of medical or technical terminology, because our extensive research into the subject teaches us the correct names for parts and functions. Perhaps this has been your experience also?
I took quite a long time writing first post, and tried to make it engaging and relatable, I was writing my story, so I wrote it in a story-like format, that's not how I'm approaching this dialogue however, as this is a conversation, so there will be discrepancies in my language and tone. I think you'll find variations in anyone's written word if they're responding naturally. I suppose if I was really some sort of scripted liar, then you wouldn't find any!

I'm starting to feel that we've overstepped a healthy dose of scepticism and we're being a bit paranoid now, I read that some people were critical of the 'one off' posts, and the posters not making themselves available afterwards to answer any questions, so I tried to make myself available, which has just brought on more cynicism. It feels a bit like there's no winning here, whenever one angle is explained, another is attacked. It seems that the intention isn't to genuinely understand how treatments that combine chiropractic might have helped people, but rather to just disagree with the very possibility on all fronts.
The implication being that I am some sort of forum infiltrating Sayer clinics conspirator who just made all of this up, which would be the alternative explanation, is a bit bizarre isn't it? (and slightly hurtful, as what I said was extremely personal to me, but I'm retaining objectivity here) Isn't it more likely that people are just posting for the first time after treatment and education? Do we really believe that all the intricacies described here, the searing pain, the sleeping on the toilet, all of the personal nuances in these stories, are just big fat fabrications? People (especially medical clinics) don't have time for that kind of nonsense over here, I assure you!
I wouldn't have posted again either, if I didn't notice this thread. I only posted originally to get the story out there in hopes that it might help someone. After seeing all of this, I decided it might be helpful to engage with other sufferers and answer all these questions.

Would you like to ask me any more questions about the treatment I received? Or even about my condition prior?
Please can I ask you what happened with your PN as I'm quite curious?

Marwa

It is true that there are no direct advertisements for Dr Durtnall and his clinics on these forums. However, he does point potential patients to the reviews here on his website:
"Read the 130 coccyx testimonials for Michael and his team at http://www.coccyx.org/treatmen/docsuk.htm and www.coccyx.org as well as pelvic pain patient reviews for Michael Durtnall and his team on the UK and Ireland forum of www.Pudendalhope.info.

Hi Alan,

I don't understand why or how that would be an issue... I also point people towards reviews on TripAdvisor, for example, as testimony to the businesses that I work with. Its normal practice.
I'm actually quite shocked that's all you have to say to me! After so much gripe about one off posters, and people not being able to discuss the specifics of the treatments, I've come on here in hopes of engaging and providing, what I thought to be, quite sought after answers.

In any case, I sincerely wish you relief and progress with your PN situation.

Best of Luck,
Marwa

Alan1646 wrote: Which points do you think are valid?

It's a valid point that it is more credible when people post more than once. It's also a valid point that most posters don't put imperatives in their posts, so when people do, it can sound like advertising. But there are a number of Dr. Durtnall's patients who have posted more than once and they don't all sound like advertisements. There is a lot of personal information and details about their experience included. As far as your criticism of Dr. Durtnall advertising on his own website, why wouldn't someone advertise on their own website? Any normal business person would advertise on their website. When you are that skeptical, Alan, you lose credibility.

Alan1646 wrote: You could look at whether the positive posts all have the same IP address.

Dr. Durtnall's patients don't have the same IP addresses but that doesn't mean anything because Ezer posted from a bunch of different IP addresses. How do I know Jason isn't Ezer? I mean....if you do a search on Jason32's posts they sound a lot like Ezer's, almost all skeptical, and Jason even recommends mindbody therapy, like Ezer. Sounds a little suspicious doesn't it?

Thanks for chiming in, Marwa. You have made some excellent points.

Violet

Wow... Uh, I am definitely NOT Ezer. I have the exact same screen name on TMS Wiki- you can read all my posts there, many of which even question mindbody. I have been told so many different things by different Doctors and PT's that I am naturally skeptical of everything. Apparently that's not allowed here. I did meet Ezer there though, as I've mentioned before. PNE is a common condition talked about there and many have been cured from it. I have improved, but not cured, from mindbody work.

Again, I wasn't gonna post anymore but your latest post kinda forced me to. This whole conversation creeps me out to be honest so I definitely won't be back. Best of luck to you all.