Health Organization for Pudendal Education

ezer wrote:
Sure but you are the one that thinks there is a common etiology among a list of conditions you posted at the beginning of this thread

Not at all, I only provided a list of common misdiagnoses we have come across at our clinic. Some patients have had literally 6-12 different diagnoses from 6-12 different therapists and clinicians.

Sometimes there is a common etiology. Sometimes not. Depends on the condition. Depends on the person. Depends on the physical findings, clinical history, and a plethora of other relevant factors.

Read up on visceralsomatic and somatovisceral literature. That is just one example. I do not have time to provide you with the culmination of years of neurological, anatomical, physiological and biomechanical education.

ezer wrote: so in some ways you made a case for the "all".

No, not once did I say "all". Nor did I make a case for "all".

Perhaps you're highly skeptical and argumentative nature is allowing your perceptions to 'fill in the blanks'.

ezer wrote: So tell us more about it this common etiology.

For PNE, for example, it is possible to have a mechanical cause, such as cycling, which causes myofascial dysfunction of the pelvic floor and fascia causing adhesions to the Pudendal Nerve, which can also occur due to mechanical compression alone, which all causes inflammation which causes more scarring and more mechanical dysfunction and pain. Pain causes guarding which causes more mechanical and myofascial dysfunction which leads back to all of the above. Furthermore, the Pudendal Nerve innervates somatic structures and visceral structures. When compressed, can cause dysfunctional innervation to the bladder (among other areas), which can cause symptoms of IC, Prostatitis, etc. Furthermore, theoretically altered innervation can lead to urinary retention, a common cause of infectious IC.

This is merely a simplistic singular example of the inter-relationships of the muscle, nerves, viscera and biomechanics of such a complex system. Starting to see why the diagnostic challenges exist?

Starting to see the common etiologies and relationships?

Beginning to understand how its like a game of 'dominoes'?

Its a vicious cycle of inter-connected elements which creates a confusing pattern with a multitude of symptoms. These multitudes of symptoms cannot be addressed by the current reductionist allopathic model of medicine because each oversimplifies it and view it through their paradigm. For instance, a Urologist only sees bladder symptoms (and assumes infection usually), a neurologist ignores biomechanics, etc. etc.

ezer wrote: I read your site and I understand the treatment you are offering. I still am unclear about the commonality. So tell us more about this common etiology.

See above.

drkandrew wrote: I simply don't have time to provide a Kinesiology degree to ezer over the internet.

I am totally aware of of the theory of PFD believe me. My point is that chronic prostatitis is not completely understood (why would there be any ongoing research into it by Dr.Shoskes and others) and therefore cannot be linked to SIJD so easily.

HerMajesty wrote:Are you in fact a Doctor (MD or Osteopath), and what exactly is the treatment you offer?

drkandrew wrote:I am in fact a doctor.

You should make it also known to the other forum members that you are a chiropractor that graduated in 2008 and not a MD.

Let me give you a hint. It is better to come as helpful and humble on a forum you just joined when you are selling something.

Dr rkandrew

You have criticized a poster by saying :

Perhaps you're highly skeptical and argumentative nature is allowing your perceptions to 'fill in the blanks'

however lets look at some of your own statements.

I simply don't have time to provide a Kinesiology degree to ezer over the internet

There is a plethora of research demonstrated the effectiveness of the treatments I am providing. Like I said, I do not have the time to help if you aren't willing to help yourself. Search each treatment modality individually on PubMed, Google Scholar, Elsevier, Science Direct, etc.

Firstly I would point out that it is a scientific approach to be highly sceptical. The role of science is to question and investigate not to simply accept beliefs. I don't think being 'highly sceptical' equates to being argumentative.

If you are selling a treatment over the internet then people are bound to ask for evidence. Its not good enough to tell patients that you do not have the time to help if they are n't willing to help themselves. Its not a laborious task to point to studies that back up your approach on pubmed.

I welcome your efforts to help this patient group and I am not criticising your treatment. However I think you need to be far more understanding towards patients when they question your approach. Being highly sceptical is something that should be praised not criticized.

Also I notice that when you were asked the question

Are you in fact a Doctor (MD or Osteopath)

you replied

I am a doctor

I think its fair to say that anyone reading your response would believe you are then a medical doctor. Your not though are you?

Yep Charlie, he is a Chiro.
2 major problems with Chiropractic: 1st, their inability to pinpoint the exact nature of a complex dysfunction before they treat; and 2nd, The rough, torquing adjustments which make up much of the Chiropractic repertoire, conflict with the known properties of connective tissue, which will resist sudden trauma. This is why Chiropractic cannot effect permanent change in a joint with brief treatemnt, and you have to keep going back over and over again. Basic physics: a gentler force applied over a longer period will not only be safer, but will in fact impart a greater total force. At the same time the connective tissues will not resist. This is how I got permanent SIJ change with brief treatement.

drkandrew, I do not appreciate your condescension to myself or to ezer. You suggest I am not willing to help myself, and yet as I explained my history to you, it is clear that I have helped myself to the utmost. In part I have done this by avoiding Chiropractic, save for one brief unfortunate run-in many years ago.
I also do not appreciate your brash commercialism. Before Jerry Hesch corrected my pelvic joint dysfunction, I was unable to work. Hence, when he gave me back the ability to work, I went to work at founding a research and education based nonprofit to disseminate Hesch Method. So I am at this time the Executive Director of the Hesch Institute. But, I would never DREAM of doing the hard sell on this board, that I have seen from you. For one thing I would have assumed the Mods would have kicked me out on my butt, but I suppose you are living proof this is not true! I am also a very busy woman but have never dismissed anyone on this board by telling them I don't have the time.
I do like that you recognize the biomechanical origins of many cases of PN and other pelvic dysfunctions, as well as the need to correct these in a multidisciplinary fashion.
I would like you to please clarify "100% success". Does this mean 100% were cured and never needed any more treatment? 100% showed some level of improvement however slight? 100% had significant gains that they maintain through ongoing treatment? what?
The vague, yet aggressive language would lead me to believe you are here to exploit a vulnerable population. However, if I have misjudged you, I am sure you are looking for ways to continually improve the service you give to patients. If this is the case, I suggest you give Jerry Hesch's website more than just a passing glance. He could teach you a thing or two you did not learn in Chiropractic school.

Charlie wrote:
Also I notice that when you were asked the question

Are you in fact a Doctor (MD or Osteopath)

you replied

I am a doctor

I think its fair to say that anyone reading your response would believe you are then a medical doctor. Your not though are you?

Fair to say that, if anyone is actually 'reading' this thread, they would have noticed the post where it clearly states the 'DC' designation, not MD.

Not sure why anyone would assume I'm an MD, especially considering my other threads consist of detailing manual therapy techniques.

Oh, and a healthy skepticism is highly useful, only if it is not corrupted into cynicism (as can be the case).

HerMajesty wrote: ...

I have a tremendous amount of sympathy for your plight, and I'm glad you've found someone who gives you some form of relief.

Good luck to you.

Clinical trials are underway for our therapy.

For those interested, I will be updating the thread under "other" therapies.

Good luck!

There are a large number of highly competent practitioners who are listed on the Pudendal HOPE website, as well as information on various treatment modalities.
It is my understanding, that this section of the website is a board for patients to share information and support.
No disrespect drkandrew, but I believe it would be more appropriate for you to contact the site administrators and supply them with any information you have on new / novel therapies, so that they can scrutinize the information and add it to the informational areas if this site if they find it appropriate to do so. You should then submit the listing of your practice so that it can be posted under the appropriate geographic heading, as does every other practitioner who treats PN.
I am doing work in this field now; our clinic has much to offer clients as do many other clinics. This board is not a free advertising venue.
I do share from time to time as appropriate, my experiences as a patient with the clinic I now work in. I hope some of your patients, including any that work with you, would choose to join this forum and share their exeriences.
I defer to the mods on this, but am not sure this board is an appropriate venue for you to promote your clinic.

drkandrew wrote:

Charlie wrote:
Also I notice that when you were asked the question

Are you in fact a Doctor (MD or Osteopath)

you replied

I am a doctor

I think its fair to say that anyone reading your response would believe you are then a medical doctor. Your not though are you?

Fair to say that, if anyone is actually 'reading' this thread, they would have noticed the post where it clearly states the 'DC' designation, not MD.

You only replied DC later in the thread. When you were asked if you were a Doctor you replied that you were a doctor. See below. People would assume that meant MD. It was only when quizzed by hermajesty that you finally said DC. Also by your username patients would assume that you are an MD.

drkandrew wrote:

HerMajesty wrote:Are you in fact a Doctor (MD or Osteopath), and what exactly is the treatment you offer?

I am in fact a doctor.

I posted the basic summary of the treatment protocol on this forum under the heading "other therapies".

I also see that you state

Clinical trials are underway for our therapy.

So there is no proof that it works. I think our stick to being skeptical or as you would maybe call it 'cynical.'

There are five classes of health professionals legally and academically entitled to the title 'doctor', using the 'Dr.' designation. I don't assume my dentist is a medical doctor when he's talking about teeth.

This is not advertising. Most of my patients state that they wish they had an ease of access to therapies and information. There is tremendous suffering- and much of it is needless in my opinion. Thank you, I will contact the administrators.

As far as evidence, there is already an RCT on the topic.

Zimmermann, R. Et al. Extracorporeal Shock Wave Therapy for the Treatment of Chronic Pelvic Pain Syndrome in Males: A Randomised, Double-Blind Placebo-Controlled Study, EUROPEAN UROLOGY 5 6 ( 2 0 0 9 ) 4 1 8 – 4 2 4

Furthermore, there is a plethora of data accumulated for our biomechanical and anatomical treatment rationale.