Health Organization for Pudendal Education

Judy's words:

"They held several consensus meetings and agreed based on the results that it was only useful for providing supplementary information in some cases. For example it is unreliable in women who have had children as this in itself affects the nerve response."

So, from this, you get the right to say that they have totally ditched the pnmlt? Read it carefully, DA. Are you a woman who has had a baby? I don't think so. It is obviously still used for "supplementary information in some cases". Also, my personal experience and my communications with probably a hundred or more people is that their pnmlt, when done correctly by a neurologist, is still a good diagnostic tool. You took a few examples where they didn't do a pnmlt coupled with a statement that it is not always used and turned it around to state that it is no longer used and it is not trustworthy.

Again, very sad how you are distorting the facts. I'll say yet another special prayer for you.

It was also good to hear about the good results that this person got from this injection in Nantes, the one that concluded that he did have PN. I guess if you had read it more closely you'd have taken this part out, because in the same post, you talk about how awful the injections are and how they shouldn't be done (because HIbner doesn't do them). It's more than obvious that you are going to defend Dr. Hibner at all cost. A 3rd prayer will now be said now for you.

Greg

Karyn wrote:

GregT wrote:What Karyn seems to be saying is that this same source who was sent to Dr. Weiss also told them about others who were being sent to Weiss.

Karyn, if I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me.

Greg

Karyn's 2nd comment:
"What I'm saying is, I personally know of someone who was referred to Hibner via Wiess. No botox, no pain pump, etc ... This person was an immediate surgical candidate based on Weiss's recommendation."

Karyn's initial comment:
"Well, I personally know of at least one person and have heard from this same source that there are others."

So, do you want to take back your statement about hearing "from this same source that there are others", or do you want to expound on that statement? You obviously heard from this source that others were also being sent to Dr. Weiss, right? Do you have any reason to think they would lie about this?

The proof is right there.You can't deny the following statement.It's dead and it's time to move on from the PNMLT/EMG testing.

As a result of this data and papers that they have published jointly it is not a major part of the diagnostic criteria that have been agreed.

All the best,
Ali

GregT wrote:Karyn's initial comment:
"Well, I personally know of at least one person and have heard from this same source that there are others."

So, do you want to take back your statement about hearing "from this same source that there are others", or do you want to expound on that statement? You obviously heard from this source that others were also being sent to Dr. Weiss, right? Do you have any reason to think they would lie about this?

Greg,
What's your point? I'll explain this one more time and then you can go find someone else to pick their words apart.
I personally know someone who was a Weiss patient. Weiss referred this person to Hibner. Aforesaid person also told me of others who were referred TO Hibner FROM Wiess.

GregT wrote:You obviously heard from this source that others were also being sent to Dr. Weiss, right?

So, obviously - NO.
What are you doing here, anyhow? No one to argue with on your own site?

GregT wrote:So, do you want to take back your statement about hearing "from this same source that there are others", or do you want to expound on that statement?

This is the only thing I want to expound on: I'm DONE with you.

Agreed Karyn.

Kind Regards,
Ali

GregT wrote:Can you give some examples of having "neuralgia" but not being entrapped. I read below that you believe that your tight muscles are the cause of your neuralgia, but I have to say, I don't understand how that would work.

Causes of neuralgia without an entrapment might be an autoimmune disease, herpetic neuralgia, diabetes, chemical irritation, radiation, infection, or trauma. Since the pudendal nerve runs through the alcock's canal between two muscles, the obturator internus and the levator ani, if those muscles are tense or in spasm they can impinge on/irritate the nerve and cause neuralgia.

According to the National Institute of Neurologic Disorders and Stroke trigeminal neuralgia may be caused by a tiny blood vessel pressing on the nerve and wearing away the myelin sheath. http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/trig ... #171423236

It's kind of scary to think of all the things that can cause nerve pain.

Violet M wrote:

GregT wrote:Can you give some examples of having "neuralgia" but not being entrapped. I read below that you believe that your tight muscles are the cause of your neuralgia, but I have to say, I don't understand how that would work.

Causes of neuralgia without an entrapment might be an autoimmune disease, herpetic neuralgia, diabetes, chemical irritation, radiation, infection, or trauma. Since the pudendal nerve runs through the alcock's canal between two muscles, the obturator internus and the levator ani, if those muscles are tense or in spasm they can impinge on/irritate the nerve and cause neuralgia.

According to the National Institute of Neurologic Disorders and Stroke trigeminal neuralgia may be caused by a tiny blood vessel pressing on the nerve and wearing away the myelin sheath. http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/trig ... #171423236

It's kind of scary to think of all the things that can cause nerve pain.

Thank you Violet. Are there any treatments for any of these other causes? I imagine that for the muscles impinging the nerve that PT would help this. The others, though, seem like there are no answers.

Greg

There is surgery for TN but I'm not sure of the success rates. It's definitely a last resort treatment though.

Greg,
What's your point? I'll explain this one more time and then you can go find someone else to pick their words apart.
I personally know someone who was a Weiss patient. Weiss referred this person to Hibner. Aforesaid person also told me of others who were referred TO Hibner FROM Wiess.

Ali made a comment with a LOL after it saying "yes, from the same source" which seemed to diminish your statement that more than one person was sent from Dr. Hibner to Dr. Weiss. Ali also had no idea that this was done, as is evidenced by his post earlier. I was trying to get you to clarify your statement because you made one obvious statement that said that multiple people were being sent to Weiss by Hibner, then you seemed to by back on that statement. You seemed to contradict your statement. That's why I wanted you to clarify what you meant so that Ali would know that you as well as me were both saying that Dr. HIbner was sending some of his patients to Dr. Weiss.

GregT wrote:You obviously heard from this source that others were also being sent to Dr. Weiss, right?


So, obviously - NO.

Now you're back to contradicting yourself. Please make up your mind. Listen, you seem unsure of yourself. On an email from Patti, a secretary of Dr. Hibner, she told me that Hibner and Weiss had a bit of an agreement that Weiss would send his patients ready for surgery only to Hibner and in return, Hibner would send some of his patients that he didn't have time to see to Weiss to help with the diagnoses. Now, unless Patti was lying to me, this was the arrangement, so now you know.

What are you doing here, anyhow?

Apparently there are many nonfactual statements being made on this website, most of them by Ali. While I'd rather just stay on my website, no one seems to be making nonfactual statements these days on http://www.tipna.org. Of course, that's probably because I've banned about the only person who has had a habit of doing this lately (Ali). As I said earlier, I will follow him around on here to make sure that I get my opinions in when I've found him to be blatantly exaggerating just to suit his own agenda. I truly hope that you haven't been sucked in by some of his scare tactics.

No one to argue with on your own site?

No. See above.

GregT wrote:So, do you want to take back your statement about hearing "from this same source that there are others", or do you want to expound on that statement?

This is the only thing I want to expound on: I'm DONE with you.

Wow! What an unfriendly person you are. And, talking like this to a newbie. (where's the "disappointed" emoticon?)

AliPasha1 wrote:The proof is right there.You can't deny the following statement.It's dead and it's time to move on from the PNMLT/EMG testing.

As a result of this data and papers that they have published jointly it is not a major part of the diagnostic criteria that have been agreed.

All the best,
Ali

Anything that can be used to help nail down a correct diagnoses for PN is useful. So it's been shown to not be reliable for women who have been pregnant? Then use it for all men. You're a man (right?). I'm a man. There are many men who can benefit still from the pnmlt.

What would you say are Dr. Hibner's different tools to use for diagnoses? Does he still have Dr. Q do the injections, or was he injuring too many people? And, in the past 2-3 months (out of the 4 years he's been treating PN patients) he is using Dr. Potter's 3 Tesla (or has he ditched her now for Dr. K? Who knows). If you ask me, his diagnostics aren't all that proven and tested at all. So he sends you to a PT place. How can a PT tell if you are entrapped in alcock's canal? I asked you that earlier and you chose to ignore it. Is it because you haven't a clue? You don't answer many questions, do you? Wonder why.

All My Loving (Lennon and McCartney)

Greg