Psychology

[Faith]

Those of you who are Christians I would like to get your opinion on something. I went to my local doctor the other day and she was upset I had gotten an appoitment with Dr. Hibner on my own without talking to her about it first. I apologized and tried to make ammends, but she was very harsh with me. I have been hurt by her deeply as she was someone I respected and trusted. She has no problem with me going with Dr. Hibner as she knows him and is aware of PN. But she is not very educated in PN. I had a couple blocks that took away my pain for a few hours, but she tried to say that isn't a positive block and didn't know for sure that I really have PN. I was so shocked and hurt by the way she treated me I couldn't defend myself or bring up the fact that Dr. Hibner mentions in his article in The Journal of Minimally Invasive Gynocology that they consider a block that takes away your pain for any length of time whether due to anesthetic or steroid to be positive.

Anyways, she said before I fly out to Phoneix she wants me to see a psychologist. She says she doesn't think this is all in my head, but that due to central sensitization the pain stimulus could be gone, but my emotions could be highly invovled causing me to still have pain. She insits on me seeing this specific psychologist, but the doctor is out of network on my insurance and we cannot afford that. My doctor tried to say if we can afford to fly to Phoneix we can go to see this psychologist. I told her Dr. Hibner was in-network so we are mostly paying for the plane tickets. But she didn't try to understand. She wants me to take Cymbalta, but I am afraid of taking Cymbalta. I am not overly depressed and function ok despite the pain (because of my strong faith in the Lord) and I dont' like the idea of messing with the chemicals in my brain. I already have enough problems! I don't really know what I am going to do as there is no one in this area who treats pelvic pain and I don't know if she will continue to treat me (meds/PT) until I see Hibner in august. I would sure appreciate your prayers as my husband and I make decisions.

So my question....how do you feel about psychology as a believer? I don't really know what therapies this psychologist will use, but I think they use cognitive behavioral therapy which I don't really agree with. Not to mention I am such a realist and these types of treatments just don't really work with my personality and thinking.

The more I have prayed about it and thought about it I personally don't feel it's right to see a psychologist who is not a Christian and isn't going to cousel me in the truth of God's word. What other hope can they give me? I don't believe in visualization and meditation unless you are meditating on scripture or praying. I know some of you may disagree, but I just wanted to get peoples opinions. I wish I knew of some Christian counselors who delt with chronic pain and maybe I could explain to my doctor about my convictions and see a Christian counselor instead. Maybe there are some in big cities, but I live in a small town.

[Griff522]

Hugs to you ((((((Faith))))). I think your doctor is being arrogant and selfish. She is not putting you and your pain first. It is HER problem not yours. And if you don't feel comfortable going to a psychologist then my opinion would be for you not to go. You know yourself better than any dr or psychologist could and so YOU know what is best for you. I'm so sorry that a dr that you respected has not been supportive of you. That has got to hurt. When I felt that way about a dr, I just found a different one. And granted I don't have a PCP handling my care at the moment but that's because I felt like I was wasting time and money trying to find one that could help me. My pain dr is the only dr that has told me he would support me in any way he can because he knows I'm in pain and he knows that what he's tried to do to help me hasn't worked.

[Celeste]

Your doctor is crossing a personal line. It's your body and mind, and you cannot be forced to go to a psychologist. I know you are seeing it from a perspective of what a waste of your money it is. Another way of looking at it is, if you have decided you would not benefit from the treatment, then why should you waste the therapist's time when he/she could be helping someone else who wants and needs it?

I think we know when something isn't right for us. I think your doctor is in the wrong here, and I hope you will still have a way to get any care that you need between now and August.

[Karyn]

OMG, Faith! Please accept hugs from me, too!!! I am absolutely horrified for you! I agree with Celeste, your doc definitely crossed a personal AND professional line! I am so, so sorry. It's got to be very disappointing to have someone you once had a good relationship with take this turn. You didn't do anything wrong. As far as the psychologist and the psych meds go, no one knows how you feel better than you do. Personally, I find it very insulting to have someone else telling me how I feel. I don't think you need to see someone. I also don't think your emotional state is driving your pain. If it were me, I'd pass on the cymbalta, too. Unless YOU feel you need it. I know they help many people but with the few I tried, they just made me depressed and flat. Like you said, you've got enough to deal with. IF you feel like talking to someone, a local, Christian Counselor sounds like the way to to. I guess what's most important is, doing what you feel is right for you. I'm not your judge, jury or executioner. Please know that you have my support with WHATEVER that is.
Warmest regards,
Karyn

[Griff522]

Faith, maybe your dr is just frustrated and doesn't know what else to do. I felt that way with all three of the gynecologists I saw.

[donstore]

Faith,
I would personally feel insulted by any doctor who told me to see a psychologist. This is just a way to discount your very real pain. Your doctor wants to be in control instead of working with you and putting your needs first. I had a similar experience with my GP. Disappointing but all too common with this problem. Do what you have to do to get what meds you can get from her that will work for you while you wait it out for Dr. Hibner. Doctors are just people like everyone else and equally fallible. We want to believe in them because we need them and often they are just not who we need them to be. Especially when they can't fix you.

Don

[calluna]

First - please don't discount the help that you can get from a psychologist. You say that you don't believe in CBT - perhaps you don't know all about it, though? I certainly don't, and I have attended courses on it since my PN began, and I now use it every day. It is just a tool which is there to be used if you want to, it does not require any particular beliefs. Meditation based on scripture is an ideal way to use CBT, together with prayer, any psychologist would tell you that. The truth is that a person such as yourself, a realist with very strong Christian beliefs, would find it an incredibly powerful way to help manage your pain, much better than most other people.

Also - why do you assume that the psychologist is not a Christian?

I think it is a great pity that your doctor is insisting on you seeing this one particular person, when it will not be covered by your insurance. I wonder why she is being so inflexible over this? And how awful for you to be in this situation, as well.

But the other issue - your doctor telling you that the pain could actually be gone, but due to your emotions being involved you could still have pain - oh my, I really do feel for you there. I have had an experience very similar to this. I was very upset indeed at the time, I felt insulted, I felt that I wasn't being heard. I still get upset just thinking about it. I have since learnt that the viewpoint taken by the doctor whom I saw is very controversial, and most other doctors just don't agree with it at all, but it still is hard to get past it.

It is really horrible being told something like that, please do try not to let it get to you.

And if she is saying that about the pain, I wonder what her logic might be in wanting you to take cymbalta (duloxetine) for pain relief! If you don't want to take it, then that should be the end of it.

Might you be able to see another doctor locally?

[HerMajesty]

Faith,

Sorry I had to skim because I have 5 minutes til wake up time, just had a couple of comments:

1. The Doc is being a drama queen and if you were to see a Psychologist, I would insist it not be HER psychologist, they'll probably sob on the phone together 1st.

2. Sorry, like I said had to skim, if you said you did not believe in CBT I missed it but I see somebody else mentioned you don't believe in CBT????
CBT is the form of psychology I think is most interesting from a Christian perspective. Instead of putting your feelings up on a pedestal like traditional talk therapy, it demonstrates how your thoughts and feelings can be changed by your underlying beliefs. Of course as a Christian you know this to be true as I am sure your perspective on all kinds of things changed radically when you BECAME a Christian. CBT is a tool that can be self taught from a book, and I once applied it to myself in a very Christian fashion in regards to a particular issue I was facing, by confronting my underlying beliefs about this issue in a document I typed out entitled, "Lies Satan Wants Me To Believe". I got tremendous insight by typing out each lie and countering it underneath in writing with the truth. So I do not think CBT is contrary to Christianity. Some other forms of psychology is, if the basis of the sessions are a woldview being fed to you by a psychologist who is not a Christian. But many psych professionals use research based modalities they have been trained in, and these are not contrary to religion any more than medicine is. It's just a new toolbox to work with.

late! gotta run! I am to Christian to say all the nasty stuff I wanted to say about your Doctor anyhow

[scaredgal]

Faith - I know how you feel! I feel like I went through something similar. My first symptom - before pain sitting, etc. was extreme sexual hyperarousal. I called my OB/GYN who I have been going to for years (so he knows I'm not nutty - I explained my symptom to him and he referred me to a family and sexual therapist! I was so angry I was seeing red. You would think a dr. you had seen for more than 20 years every year would offer more than that. Anyway, needless to say, I didn't see the psych he recommended - it's not in my head it's in my "you know what"!

In regards to the meds, I understand completely. I've been sitting on scripts of Nortriptylline, Cymbalta and Tramadol, which I have not yet taken and really don't want to. So I'm fighting that battle with you. I've taken antidepressants before and swore I never would again after a horrible withdrawal.

In regards to seeing a psychiatrist or psychologist, perhaps you could find one that has the Christian faith that you do? I know I went to one years ago for a problem I was dealing with and she did approach it from a Christian point of view. I am a Christian, but I also believe that I can visualize and meditate on things that are not "Chrisian-based" such as reflecting on time at the beach, remembering the feeling of sun against my skin, sand in my toes. Those are relaxing images as well. But you have to make the choice that's best for you.

[Faith]

Thanks so much for all of your support. This forum sure is a blessing!

I don't want to "bash" my doctor because I do think she genuinely cares about her patients, but at the same time I do feel like I was stabbed in the back. At my appointment in December this doctor acted like there were several things she wanted to try to help me gain relief (including possibly switching to Lryica and trying an SI joint injection for my sacral pain), but this appointment she mentioned nothing of this and when I tried to talk about the sacral pain went straight to talking about the psychologist

She kept saying she has had one patient similiar to me that went to this psychologist and had a 90% turnaround so that's why she is insisting on this one psychologist I guess. I wanted to ask, "could this patient sit?" I find it highly unlikely that her pain was exactly like mine. The interesting thing is my doctor also treats an acquaintance/friend of mine that had a horseback fall and the doctor thinks she has PN. She isn't requiring my friend to see this psychologist. So this makes me believe that she must think it's all in my head and I don't have PN. She told me I needed to research central sensitization (which I already have), but nothing I can find says anything about it involvoing "the emotional center of the brain" (as she put it). Can anyone show me otherwise, please?


For the record am I wrong in thinking my PN blocks were positive if they took my pain away for several hours only? My doctor doesn't think I fit the normal 'PN mold' because I wasn't a cyclist, didn't have a fall, or wasn't exactly injured in childbirth. And besides don't some cases of PN just happen without an identifiable cause, right?
If I don't have PN, praise God, but with each passing day of pain that only worsens I find it hard to believe. I am concerned though that my doctor will notify Hibner and that he will already have an opinion about me before he meets me!

First - please don't discount the help that you can get from a psychologist. You say that you don't believe in CBT - perhaps you don't know all about it, though?

You are right Calluna. I don't know very much about CBT. I should probably say I am not "against" CBT as a theory I just don't agree with it coming from a non-Christian standpoint. I believe that all things point to God and without Him there can be no hope for this life. The only way a psychologist is going to be able to help me (I believe) is to point me back to the scriptures and back to Jesus' death on the cross for me and the purpose that gives me for living.

Also - why do you assume that the psychologist is not a Christian?

Of course I can't know whether she is a Christian for sure or not (only God knows that), but I guess I assume since she is practicing secularly her focus of therapy will not be coming from the Bible which is what I would want.

I think it is a great pity that your doctor is insisting on you seeing this one particular person, when it will not be covered by your insurance. I wonder why she is being so inflexible over this?

I think it's because she saw this one patient have a 90% turnaround and is friends with this psychologist. I think she thinks I will really benefit from her and wants me to get better, but she isn't realistic when it comes to money. She told me I could set up a payment plan to pay for the therapy. At $300 (or more) a visit I'd have to take from our savings to cover this. She thinks I should be able to pay for it if I can fly to Phoneix, but I tried to explain the whole in-network/ out of network thing and that Hibner is in my network (Praise God!) so I will mostly have to pay for plane tickets.

But the other issue - your doctor telling you that the pain could actually be gone, but due to your emotions being involved you could still have pain - oh my, I really do feel for you there. I have had an experience very similar to this. I was very upset indeed at the time, I felt insulted, I felt that I wasn't being heard. I still get upset just thinking about it. I have since learnt that the viewpoint taken by the doctor whom I saw is very controversial, and most other doctors just don't agree with it at all, but it still is hard to get past it.

So other doctors believe this? Where do they get this info, do you know? I can't seem to find anything about it online.

Might you be able to see another doctor locally?

My only real option is my OBGYN, but I think she would be able to get me the meds and PT I need until august. She probably won't get me an SI injection though and that's something I just want to rule out. And it's just such a pain to yet again go to another doctor. I have been to so many doctors and it makes me feel like I am a hypochrondiac!

Another way of looking at it is, if you have decided you would not benefit from the treatment, then why should you waste the therapist's time when he/she could be helping someone else who wants and needs it?

Good point Celeste and besides if you already believe something isn't going to work...most likely it won't. Your heart/mind have to in it to really benefit from something like therapy

CBT is a tool that can be self taught from a book,

My thinking exactly HM!

In regards to seeing a psychiatrist or psychologist, perhaps you could find one that has the Christian faith that you do? I know I went to one years ago for a problem I was dealing with and she did approach it from a Christian point of view. I am a Christian, but I also believe that I can visualize and meditate on things that are not "Chrisian-based" such as reflecting on time at the beach, remembering the feeling of sun against my skin, sand in my toes. Those are relaxing images as well.

I would love to see a Christian counselor. I think my husband and I would benefit from it greatly, but we don't have any for probably at least 2 hours from us